WWW.GLOVE-WORKS.COM BASEBALL GLOVE COLLECTOR FORUM

GLOVE-WORKS.COM Baseball Glove Collector Forum/discussion board



WWW.GLOVE-WORKS.COM "It's a Whole Nutha Level" tm. Glove-Works 2012

Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Horween vs. Non Horween
Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:05 pm
Posts: 4
Can someone please tell me the difference between Horween leather and non Horween? The feel, durability, shaping ability, ext.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Horween vs. Non Horween
Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:50 pm
Posts: 186
Horween holds its shape pretty well, but they are a bitch to break in, not as bad as a good KIP, but once you broke a KIP in, Kip doesnt Hold its shape for more than 1 season, and turn floppy much sooner than a good Horween. (My experience) You want dry Horween, if you cant find, you can settle on Oil Injected Horween, or Gutmann Leather (if you can find them).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Horween vs. Non Horween
Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:11 pm 
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 4:08 pm
Posts: 1225
The three Horween leathers I have lots of experience with, have different characteristics.

Dry tan is pretty stout, and holds up pretty well. I think those who have a real hard time breaking these in, just don't use them enough (excluding some of the tan Horween catcher's mitts like the Weiters model, which is a hard break-in).

Oil treated black (especially when ordered as a custom, or through the pro dept.) tends to be pretty stout, and holds up very well. Very popular leather on pro dept. gloves, as they tend to hold up well to a long season.
Dry black can be iffy, especially if purchased retail. I've seen more than a couple of dry black HOH's get soft and floppy before the end of one season of use.

Primo/oxblood Horween is that oxblood/burgandy colored oiled leather, that you can see on the Posey mitt (not sure if Rawlings still sources this leather from Horween, but they did for several years in the recent past). Real stout leather that holds up really well, and makes a real nice palm side leather on a custom (especially on a catcher's mitt). Rawlings usually gets some pro dept. orders for gloves in this leather every season (sometimes with a black or mesh back), as there's usually some guys who really like how it holds up (not to mention the cool color).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Horween vs. Non Horween
Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:09 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:02 am
Posts: 114
Location: Michigan
Mattingly knows his leather. The only thing I would add would pertain to weights. Dry tan Horween would be considered the middleweight - tough, reasonable weight that is the standard.

Oil treated can be all over the place. The black TL feels heavier than a similar sized non TL glove. The Jeter glove comes to mind as feeling portly for an 11.5 inch glove. I haven't noticed this with the tan TL. Dry black JB leather, while not Horween, is lightweight and as stated will get floppy. Custom dry black can be much thicker. My son's 200 seems like it will never flop out. Feather weight black Horween on Dual Cores is the flyweight and should be avoided. Personally, I'd consider it a first glove if it was under $100 new.

Everyone would agree the Primo leather is heavy and so is the P series leather on HOH's. Mattingly's point on the palm side is especially spot on. I was looking over a 502P I have the other day and it's smooth as silk - no noticeable creases or folds forming. It really holds it shape nicely, but is heavier than similar sized gloves.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Horween vs. Non Horween
Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:57 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:11 pm
Posts: 44
All I remember is that horween gloves were the heaviest gloves I've owned and also lasted the longest. I wish I knew how much they weighed before I applied gloveoleum. Back then there wasn't all of these gel like oils along with squalene oils that I bought from japan that do not seem to add any weight at all. I remember literally pouring a whole metal container to break the glove in. The leather was so tough and so dry too. So much of the weight must have come from the oiling I added. I owned a PRO-HF and a PRO-TB. I loved the HF but hated the TB, but would not go back if I could get a new version of those gloves with horween. I love the lightness while still being tough of kip. I've tried a couple of kip gloves and some are definitely not as good as others.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Horween vs. Non Horween
Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:52 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2015 3:06 pm
Posts: 339
with all the horween love, I dont get why those 6xtc s are still in stock over at DMS. With out knowing how the horween coming to the builder is, that could be the the end of an era when they eventually do sell out


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Horween vs. Non Horween
Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 4:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2014 7:05 pm
Posts: 102
bigmac25 wrote:
with all the horween love, I dont get why those 6xtc s are still in stock over at DMS. With out knowing how the horween coming to the builder is, that could be the the end of an era when they eventually do sell out


Might just be the ones that have split crotches that get bought then returned. I got one of the black pro12tc and shipped it back.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Horween vs. Non Horween
Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:37 pm
Posts: 2087
Location: New York, NY
bigmac25 wrote:
with all the horween love, I dont get why those 6xtc s are still in stock over at DMS. With out knowing how the horween coming to the builder is, that could be the the end of an era when they eventually do sell out



Ive seen an early version of the 2017 builder and the only Horweens are still the Black OT and Featherlite. It just seems like tan horween is hard to get? I know Bob said it was not the easiest to work with either. Id imagine if it shows up it will c555, with a bit more oil.

We know that the market shows people they want an easily broken in glove. I think that the majority of people do want this. Tan Horween does not provide that.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Horween vs. Non Horween
Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:11 pm
Posts: 44
Hrking4675 wrote:
bigmac25 wrote:
with all the horween love, I dont get why those 6xtc s are still in stock over at DMS. With out knowing how the horween coming to the builder is, that could be the the end of an era when they eventually do sell out



Ive seen an early version of the 2017 builder and the only Horweens are still the Black OT and Featherlite. It just seems like tan horween is hard to get? I know Bob said it was not the easiest to work with either. Id imagine if it shows up it will c555, with a bit more oil.

We know that the market shows people they want an easily broken in glove. I think that the majority of people do want this. Tan Horween does not provide that.


Aren't dry tan Horween TT2 worth the most out of all of the Horween gloves? I've seen some on IG and people ask way too much for them then sew on some fake gold labels which places them in only an idiot would pay that price territory.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Horween vs. Non Horween
Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:37 pm
Posts: 2087
Location: New York, NY
I'd say anything in Tan Horween is. Youd probably see a USA 6HF or 12TC go for more than a TT2/AK2. Id say a horween 200-6 and TT2/AK2 would fetch close to the same. We dont really see IG prices though like you do on Ebay, so its tough to say what its worth - or what someone is paying for it.

What I find hilarious about this TT2 infatuation is Rawlings released that pattern as a PROS15SP or something like that. An 11.5" Pro Preferred with Camel/Black. Nobody liked that pattern. In my opinion, that pattern sucks to actually use. You get Tulo using it, he gets a spot in the ALCS with a light shined on his glove and every 11-17 year old instantly NEEDS a tan Horween TT2.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Horween vs. Non Horween
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:01 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:11 pm
Posts: 44
I think the TT2 Horween lovefest is because Tulo is the only one that I can think of that actually uses Horween leather so there's those instagram sellers hashtagging #TT2PRODEPT if a TT2 is made from Horween. I know that I've seen way too many and all were asking for way too much money for them. The zim and bryant models in Horween aren't in demand as much because those players use PP leather. I'd like to know the weights of Horween gloves. I remember them being extremely heavy and I would never go back to a heavy glove again. Even though they were sturdy, they didn't last forever so anything thinking they are buying a glove that will be the last glove they will ever need or that they can pass the glove on for generations of use are sadly mistaken unless each generation only uses the glove for one season. The Horween HOH gloves had it's time to shine and now it's time to move on. There's better and lighter gloves to be used. I also remember having to try on a dozen or more PRO-HF gloves to find one that I liked. There was seemingly something wrong with each one that I didn't like. Manufacturing standards were not high imho.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Horween vs. Non Horween
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:42 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2015 3:06 pm
Posts: 339
Hrking4675 wrote:
bigmac25 wrote:
with all the horween love, I dont get why those 6xtc s are still in stock over at DMS. With out knowing how the horween coming to the builder is, that could be the the end of an era when they eventually do sell out



Ive seen an early version of the 2017 builder and the only Horweens are still the Black OT and Featherlite. It just seems like tan horween is hard to get? I know Bob said it was not the easiest to work with either. Id imagine if it shows up it will c555, with a bit more oil.

We know that the market shows people they want an easily broken in glove. I think that the majority of people do want this. Tan Horween does not provide that.


i know tan has been discussed for jan 1, I thought i saw where it was just a supply issue for now but you are right. Instant gratification for sure.
I'd bet it do well out of the gate at least. Most glove guys would pick up a couple and of course the kids who wanna try the color horween will give it a shot and then figure out its a leather and they dont like it because its too stiff :roll: ;)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Horween vs. Non Horween
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:55 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2015 3:06 pm
Posts: 339
Aren't dry tan Horween TT2 worth the most out of all of the Horween gloves? I've seen some on IG and people ask way too much for them then sew on some fake gold labels which places them in only an idiot would pay that price territory.[/quote]

I REALLY think this TT2 thing is going to be a flash in the pan. The horween one was the it glove because of the eastbay ak2 and that were all you could get rather easily. OG tt2 was harder to obtain and there for was the 'it'glove. I know a ton with blem stamping were found in Canada last summer and that caused a bit of a stir. I just think more than anything a few big IG accounts hyped it up and then simple supply and demand came into play. Alot of em seemed to change hands too. I dont think they were being used. I tried the ak2 and it ripped up the back of my hand pretty good after one warmup with it so i got rid of it. Then I had the chance for a horween tt2 to come back in a trade so i said what the hell, lets try this again. It was gone with in 24 hrs lol.

I really believe that (kinda similar with the rv23) now this pattern/glove will be available to the masses it wont be hotter for much longer. Maybe there will always be an infatuation with the look itself - but lets face it.... if you dont play 2b or SS and insist on using the tt2 you are just being stubborn and not doing yourself any favors.

Rawlings isnt making any $$ on ebay or forum sales.... and if its deemed they could be making $$ then start the presses!! We have the ak2 in stock at EB, TT2 GGC gloves everywhere and can be had for less than $200, now its a custom option... I predict (not a very bold prediction mind you-it always works like that haha) it will follow the path of every other fad for the last 30 yrs and itll just be sucked dry of every dollar. Once it finally isnt making $$ it'll be pulled and then who knows.. maybe thatll make it rare agaiun a few yrs later. Not helping is the fact the glove is like a garden hoe. People who couldnt obtain one before now have every opportunity and we are already seeing the dumb of the model just from the GGC version because they realized it might look slick but the pattern itself is kinda poopy for anything other than 2b/ss

Now, that horween gold label canada exclusive that already sold out... that one might have some legs :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Horween vs. Non Horween
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:11 pm
Posts: 44
The thing about patterns holds true for any glove. People who buy PRO-303 H webs aren't pitchers or infielders. Maybe the people buying the TT2 are infielders that are loyal rawlings guys. Wilson fanboys will certainly go for the 1787 pattern or one of the variations based off of that model like the dp15. I'm surprised the people lusting or buying the TT2 aren't buying the PROS15ICB instead. Maybe that model isn't available any more? Tulo seems like a guy that's fading away fast and I'd think people would start wanting the model that Lindor uses as he's the new hot thing for shortstops.

Fads certainly come and go. In my younger days, all of the outfield gloves were fastbacks. Now they are scarce and if you want one, chances are you will have to order it off a custom simulator. People will always want to use what *insert favorite or best player at the position you play* uses.

I am curious about one thing. Where do people get "pro stock" quality gloves from? I see them and I am not going to make a blind bid to find out. I am interested to know how much those gloves weigh and how much they are better than the typical HOH, PP, A2K, A2000, etc.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Horween vs. Non Horween
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:37 pm
Posts: 2087
Location: New York, NY
I almost hope tan horween is offered and gold labels so all these guys hawking $700 HOH's and driving up used GG prices to poach labels will be put to rest.

The funny part will be how quickly everyone who orders a horween TT2 hates 1. the pattern and 2. the fact it takes a year to break in.

(Now the smart way to go is get the PRO200 with the SP w/ X-Lace web) Form and function there. Theres a reason why what 3-5 players use an AK/TT model and you have hundreds using NP and 200's.


Top
 Profile  
 


Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Mods Database :: Reset blocks

phpBB SEO
Portal XL 5.0 ~ Plain 0.2
Create a Forum | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy | Report the forum