WWW.GLOVE-WORKS.COM BASEBALL GLOVE COLLECTOR FORUM

GLOVE-WORKS.COM Baseball Glove Collector Forum/discussion board



WWW.GLOVE-WORKS.COM "It's a Whole Nutha Level" tm. Glove-Works 2012

Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: A Changing Hobby
Unread postPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:59 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:37 pm
Posts: 2087
Location: New York, NY
Curious from some of the other members what they think about how this hobby has changed over the last few years. I've been trying to put together an excel sheet of all the glove's I've owned through the years and realized I've been at this since September of 2001, so 15+ years now. I hate to be the guy who talks about the "good ol' days," but there just seems to be so much complaining (yeah this post is totally complaining too) about every little thing and then someone "@rawlings" on some social media platform, all to try and get something out of it.

Anyway, I got into this hobby one as a player first and a collector second. For me, the gems were always stuff I'd pick up from minor leaguers on eBay or from people here, or those who were in the know - stuff you couldnt get in a store or even as a special make up. Sometimes to use, sometimes to shelf. I dont remember this much complaining though about a piece of leather meant to be used to death. I've certainly flipped some gloves for $$ over the years, but definitely took a loss on others. For me I guess breaking even in the end was fine - it was more about what you could have come through your collection. The way this has kind of turned into the sneaker game is a bit off putting for me at least. You have guys buying up small runs of things to hold and then sell. To each their own, but as a "veteran" at this point, I am almost hoping this glove fad passes and we get away from the talk about "glove value" going up or down.

15 years of this, I think I'm probably looped in for life at this point, but the first 12 years of this was definitely the "heyday," from my perspective.

As a discussion point, what is everyone else whos a player, collector, or both in the glove hobby for these days?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A Changing Hobby
Unread postPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 8:34 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:16 am
Posts: 136
Started in 2010 in community college ball, but all the gloves I bought during 2008-2011 were sold off due to a need of money in college.

But to your point- yes the game's a bit different now. Instagram's a nice way to check out other gloves but there's a lot of bogus information being pulled out of asses out on "pro dept" Wilson and Rawlings (Mizuno seems to be absent on there). Ex: quality of Rawlings have dropped from 2010, Wilson pro issues being 1% of their top leather, and certain gloves being spring training leftovers. It's none of my business, but it's still annoying.

If anything, one thing I noticed about Pro Dept Rawlings is the index embroidery is substantially fuzzier/wider/takes-more-room than stock gloves, which have a sharper/skinnier/cleaner look to it, but whatever. Also, while I don't mind Rawlings expanding their horizon of rainbow gloves, I'm not a fan of the Wilson copying. The new "504 pattern" and "Player name" stampings on the internal thumb and pinkies may very well be by-products of feedback from the Instagram crowd to Rawlings who have been trying to emulate Wilson's marketing success.

The industry will always have teenagers vying for the hottest glove whatever that might look like or whichever pro is using it. I don't remember the AK2 pattern being as popular as the TT2 but while the pattern hasn't changed, the player wearing it has. I do think that colorful customs are popular now, and it may one day fade as well after it becomes the norm. Colored mesh and snakeskin and other synthetics seem to be short-term additions to that avenue, but after that? Might as well add feathers onto the fingers. After that, gold chains wrapper around the web. But you get the idea.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A Changing Hobby
Unread postPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:29 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2015 3:06 pm
Posts: 339
Well,

I cant say I've been here long, just a couple years. It started out looking for the glove I used in HS and it turned out to be a difficult find.... but it was FUN!!
Then, once it arrived and it was broken in I got bored.... So i decided to do it all over again!!!
For the last couple days, I've actually partaken in conversation on IG. Its turned into ( for the most part) and older person perspective vs young collector/player.
I liken it to the SLCS debate because that seemed very love hate. Some folks couldnt get enough with all ther hand made inconsistencies, small imperfections, and shape while others hated them for that exact reason.
What drove me nuts on IG is that the target audience/demo for Rawlings (just the example used bc thats who seem to be catching heat) isnt collectors. Its BALL PLAYERS!!!
Gloves are a tool to be used to play the game we love. If you decide to collect and shelf a glove, Great!! BUT That is not its intended use.
The 'trend' as Jason mentioned is now getting your custom/or glove via retailer and pointing out the flaws and pitching a schiznit fit.
I believe you should be happy with your purchase. If you drop $300 on something, the worst thing that could happen is being disappointed BUT lets put this in perspective here...
IG user buys a AK2. When it arrives, its a different version than what was used in the stock picture.
Now, IMO this new blacked out version looks cooler BUT it doesnt have the index finger pad, sports a red work mark rather than the old style yellow one and is stamped proak2mb rather than proak2mbpro.
Its apparent this was just a simple mistake of the stock photo not matching the production model. It is listed as 'prostock' but those terms are used so loosely and flippantly now - who know what it actually is.
So, the different version of the glove comes and rather than do the adult thing and post a heads up saying "hey, fyi - this glove isnt the same as in the pic" and deciding they dont like it and throw it back in the box and return it.... they start an all out witch hunt.
They start calling Rawlings out for illegal business practices, bait and switch etc
Then someone else posts about it, but doesnt have 1st hand knowledge, a few facts change and its like a epidemic.
Somehow it spirals even further into terrible qlty control sucks and keeps going down hill.
ALL OF THIS.... over someone being disappointed that the stock pic was wrong.
Like I said, if you dont like it - pack it up and send it back lol. You dont have to keep it, its not like Rawlings wont give you a refund.
I'm not even sure there is a acceptable solution either as they cant send a glove they didnt make...
Can you imagine if this much effort and backlash was put to good use and this was put behind an actual injustice rather than a baseball glove?!?!


Last edited by bigmac25 on Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A Changing Hobby
Unread postPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:29 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2015 3:06 pm
Posts: 339
FWIW, it does seem there has been a rash of incorrect customs. Some not being mesh when ordered that way, some wrong size, some with minor imperfections etc
I really do feel bad for those people. Mistakes will happen, and taking part in a forum or group of glove fans will always turn up more mistakes than if you weren't connected. I'm sure Rawlings will make it right somehow... and most have been adult about it just got it taken care of and delt with the disappointment of having to wait a few more weeks for a reorder.
Anyway, this is a bit off subject but it illustrates how this hobby has changed. I WISH I was a part of it in the 'good old days'
I posted my feelings on the collectors aspect over at SBF, but here is the copy and paste... It was in response to the new TT2 release after people were shelling out big $$ for the 1st wave because it was so limited.... and then it got re released


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A Changing Hobby
Unread postPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:30 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2015 3:06 pm
Posts: 339
people seemed pretty excited about this a few weeks ago when it was announced and everyone was talking about it... but now its being torn apart... gloves a glove. I dont see why a little wrinkle is such a big deal but i guess it is what it is...
Date Duke and I were having a convo and it kind of pertains to this....
For the most part, USA glvoes are worth big $$ minty because no one thought ' hey, ill keep this new and in 20 yrs itll be worth a ton'.
There is a pattern to ALL collectibles that are not made of precious metals...
Before people collect or think to preserve, things can be worth something.
As soon as that item is deemed to be 'worth money' there is a spike.
Once the company itself recognizes there is $$ to be made as a collectible it will pump out as much as it can and bleed it dry until the trend has ended.... at which point nothing is worth anything because the bubble has burst and no one will care any more.
Wilson has been at it with the GOTM, but this is the start of Rawlings realizing its collectible potential.
Sadly, its all down hill from here...

Pick your trend! Baseball cards, Beanie Babies, Starting Lineups, Sports Picks, Star Wars toys etc etc...

Lets use baseball cards for example...
Whats worth something? Pre 1970 cards..
Why? Because they were thrown out, put in bike spokes, played with etc .
No one thought to save them and as a result few survived so when the hobby took off, everyone was scrambling for a limited supply in good condition (much like usa rawlings for example)
Then companies started to take notice and pumped out as many as they could and more than people needed or wanted even if they thought they needed them. Each company would put out many different series each year. There is enough 1991 donruss printed to go all the way around the world. People started thinking of it as an investment and bought cases and put them in storage unopened so they could put their kid through school on it someday.
Now? they are worth less then they paid in the early to mid 90s and thats even with inflation.
Eventually people stopped caring and the hobby imploded. People jumped off the bandwagon and cut their losses.
It eventually came back a bit and there were hardcore guys who never left, but its nothing like the old days when candy distributes stocked them and every gas station you went to had a nice selection.
The hobby still exists, but everything thats not an autograph or jersey piece is essentially filler and even those are watered down and not really worth anything. If you collect, its for fun- not to make $$.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A Changing Hobby
Unread postPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:30 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2015 3:06 pm
Posts: 339
With the exception of maybe game used equipment ( which, is still worth more if its back from when people didnt think about saving/collecting it) or maybe shoes- which i know nothing about but it seems to thrive... every hobby has followed the same pattern.

So, unless you have a pro dept glove or something 1 of 10 or something, odds are gloves wont make you rich.
All these limited editions rawlings is pumping out? not very limited. Most can be replicated by making a custom.
Now, 10 yrs from now all these poeple will have kept their 'limited' gloves on a shelf so they wont be as difficult to obtain because people are aware of it and because so many gloves are being kept mint - it wont have the same 10 or 20 year spike in price like gloves that are from 10 or 20 yrs ago to current, in the now.This is common sense to most, but for the people complaining about a small issue in their craftsmanship if it bothers you because you are ocd about it thats totally cool. But if you are concerned because itll be devalued thats just silly. This is a glove, its made to be used. Collect what you like to collect because you like it and it gives you joy. Not to save it for 10 years from now to cash in on a sale. You arent the only one with that idea lol. Nothing coming off of the production line at the moment will be worth much and when horween becomes common place among custom and people arent searching for it, even that minty pro200-1 you might be hoarding wont be worth much more than a glove because everyone can buy one. The old ones should still carry value because of how they came to be rare and extinct, but when the hype dies down and not as many people are competing for them who knows if they will still be a constant value gain.

There will be exceptions, super low # exclusives, something that cant be replicated with a custom, autographed or game used gloves... but all in all this isnt a way to get rich. Its a way to have fun. I really think that someday after the fad is passed these 'special' gloves will just be bought for normal glove prices to use like they were intended. The hard core guys who just appreciate leather will still be there and probably trying to seek out what is collectible ( older gloves, pro dept and the like) and maybe when the dust settles it wont be all that different from 5 yrs ago before this glove collecting trend became a thing.

I could be wrong, but this has happened SSSOOO many times with anything 'collectible' my $$ is on history repeating itself.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A Changing Hobby
Unread postPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 5:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:37 pm
Posts: 2087
Location: New York, NY
This.
bigmac25 wrote:
Can you imagine if this much effort and backlash was put to good use and this was put behind an actual injustice rather than a baseball glove?!?!



Those are all good points. The hobby is certainly watered down by these kids (I was doing this in HS too so I'm not too far removed from that perspective) but my, trying to turn baseball gloves into an Econ 101 project of S&D curves and trying to game the system as if they were stocks day trading... Crazy, ha!

I think the most amuzing piece of this for me is the "Horween," aura. Most people dont even know what this really means, or is, or what the benefit/drawback of this material is. You have people posting on instagram how the "new" Horween is garbage now :lol: . How many USA gloves, stock horween, or PI Horween gloves have you ever had on your hand, let alone used. I guess this is the hobby where everyone is a Food Critic (South Park anyone?) now.

I am just happy I have hamstrings that have seemingly sort of repaired themselves to play again and I've got some renewed interest in this. It would be great if the younger generation saw this for something other than what you see on Instagram now, but who knows what will come next. I do think Rawlings (and most companies) do whats right in the end, but the crying wolf and trying to skewer the company for every small flaw is insane. People really have forgotten that you can dial a phone number on your iPhone to call Customer Service. Many times when you go that route, they'll offer you something in return for not going scorched earth on them. Different generation though, right? All about the attention that they were not catered to.

Either way, I am hoping we can get some more enthusiasts back here. A few years back we did a few events on the East Cost and it was cool to meet other guys passionate about collecting, playing, and baseball gloves overall - not just for the likes and to become an IG model.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A Changing Hobby
Unread postPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:29 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:11 pm
Posts: 44
I fail to believe that a modern Rawlings glove made in the Philippines over a classic HOH glove built in the USA is worth collecting.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A Changing Hobby
Unread postPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:02 am
Posts: 114
Location: Michigan
vegasf1 wrote:
I fail to believe that a modern Rawlings glove made in the Philippines over a classic HOH glove built in the USA is worth collecting.

Or worth flipping for a $100 profit. We need to start a Dum Dum Hall Of Fame for some of these delusional participants.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A Changing Hobby
Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:37 pm
Posts: 948
I guess I'm starting to fall more into the 'old people' group too, and occasionally pine for the days when Bob would chime in to a Rawlings discussion. But I'll still try to see the good in where the hobby has gotten to. As I've mentioned before, I did break down and join Instagram and overall I've enjoyed it. I can definitely understand where the stereotype (the 14 year old kid with a parent's credit card) came from. But that being said, I've met a couple of really good guys on there - guys that were unaware of the forum here (or SBF) - and seem legitimately interested in gloves as a hobby / collection and not a flipping business.

Secondly, this whole overdone 'horween' craze actually has had some positive effect, as its lead to Rawlings bringing back horween to the custom program after killing it off a couple years ago...apparently its yet to be seen how it compares to old stuff (getting this info from a SBF thread I'm in) but still, it would be gone if not for people with money screaming for it. In fact, Chad over at SBF has gotten pretty good at getting small batch orders together (in about a month I'm expecting to get a future gamer from one of these runs - a horween PRO1000 12.25".) These orders wouldn't happen if it weren't for the minimum number of financial backers...something that probably would have been a lot harder to get together 5 or 10 years ago.

Jason, I love that you have a spreadsheet going...I have one too, and for years was very good about listing my purchase price, sale price (if I ever sold it), notes about it, etc...But have been bad about keeping it current the past year or more. I should dig it out of wherever it is on my computer and update it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A Changing Hobby
Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:42 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:37 pm
Posts: 2087
Location: New York, NY
Good input there. I do agree it is nice that that option will be coming eventually. I believe the horween supply thing that everyone says. Anyone remember that Glovesmith was using the good stuff and even Bart commented how brutal Horween was to work with? I am looking forward to those 2 SBF exclusives coming. Im for sure getting the 206-20 12" SP.

I have my IG account that I keep in the corner dimly lit watching everything else, haha. I just see people who I'll leave nameless (one of whom got a scalding on here) who have "popular" accounts and I just shake my head sometimes knowing the collections people on here have put their self promotion to shame.

I'll get that spreadsheet up one day, its not nearly close to being finished.

I am going to start another thread, but I'd like to see if we can revive the forum a little. Ill be honest, I think most of the people on IG are not for the better when it comes to the glove world, but theres got to be some new people around who can add some value or good discussion on here. I think the forum needs an easier way to upload pictures, but I think having something that is more text based also weeds-in the people who actually care.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A Changing Hobby
Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:50 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:11 pm
Posts: 44
Hrking4675 wrote:
Good input there. I do agree it is nice that that option will be coming eventually. I believe the horween supply thing that everyone says. Anyone remember that Glovesmith was using the good stuff and even Bart commented how brutal Horween was to work with? I am looking forward to those 2 SBF exclusives coming. Im for sure getting the 206-20 12" SP.

I have my IG account that I keep in the corner dimly lit watching everything else, haha. I just see people who I'll leave nameless (one of whom got a scalding on here) who have "popular" accounts and I just shake my head sometimes knowing the collections people on here have put their self promotion to shame.

I'll get that spreadsheet up one day, its not nearly close to being finished.

I am going to start another thread, but I'd like to see if we can revive the forum a little. Ill be honest, I think most of the people on IG are not for the better when it comes to the glove world, but theres got to be some new people around who can add some value or good discussion on here. I think the forum needs an easier way to upload pictures, but I think having something that is more text based also weeds-in the people who actually care.


I follow more of the Asian glove collectors. There is really nothing new or great that I've seen out of Rawlings and Wilson lately. I really like the looks of the asics custom gloves.

Some of the more popular IG glove sellers are really arrogant like supremegloves. There's some cool guys, but those are usually the glove repair guys.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A Changing Hobby
Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:59 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:37 pm
Posts: 2087
Location: New York, NY
Ha, well if we are going to name names, I couldnt agree more there...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A Changing Hobby
Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:43 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:02 am
Posts: 114
Location: Michigan
Remember that "Supreme" Rawlings glove released a few years ago? It was a look-at-me, loud, obnoxious red color. In the end it was just overpriced, mediocre Player Preferred leather.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A Changing Hobby
Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:02 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:37 pm
Posts: 2087
Location: New York, NY
I do remember that one. It was for a skate store in SoHo that I used to get my Nike Dunk SB's from when I collected sneakers in HS.


Top
 Profile  
 


Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Mods Database :: Reset blocks

phpBB SEO
Portal XL 5.0 ~ Plain 0.2
Create a Forum | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy | Report the forum